Mythos and Logos are rather like M.C. Escher's 1948 lithograph "Drawing Hands". To engage in rational thought requires the mythos of rationality, to engage in mythos requires the logic that holds stories together, round and round, without end, stories and logic, logic and stories, and all of humanity woven in between.
Also: I dispute your robot's accusations against Kant - he did propose that rationality was essential to securing knowledge, but Kant did not desire to cast out mythos as the robot's wording suggests (this is a better description of Hume than of Kant). Kant well understood that there were important ideals that could not be expressed rationally, and although he believed in 'rational religion' (as did many of the Founding Fathers of the US) he understood that ecclesiastical faith (mythos) was the essential vehicle through which rational religion propagates and establishes its symbolic languages. Kant did not talk in terms of 'mythos', but his writings do not presume everything worthwhile is rational, not by a long chalk.
All in all, the robot's ugly precis is built upon the sort of lazy back projection that dominates contemporary thought, so it is hardly surprising that a Large Language Model cannot see beyond the idle chatter it has aggregated from online texts. Since literally all it can do is make maps of what people are saying and then export sentences implied by those maps, they make a great thesaurus but a lousy encyclopaedia! 😂
Thanks for the comment on Kant and his valuation of mythos. A working life of fitfully directing discrete logic “mechanical” entities along a desired path has only strengthened my innate bias for logos over mythos. We all follow the paths that are comfortable for us, but the further evolution of our group minds demands that those of us that are able to do so, also explore less comfortable paths.
You: All in all, the robot's ugly precis is built upon the sort of lazy back projection that dominates contemporary thought”
Me: Indeed, re the logic of today’s AI, and more so, tomorrow’s, like all the devices we’ve constructed to extend/transcend our natural abilities, we need to be always aware of their limitations. Unfortunately, in the case of AI, it looks like a lot of damage is going to be done before that happens.
I think that my older daughter, Clara, lives much more in the mythos world than I do. She refused to engage in arguments about things. She just loves us and believes what her heart tells her.
I wonder if Trump engages in both logos and mythos. In Constitution of Knowledge, he tells a reported that he purposefully ridicules them, so that when they say bad things about him, people won't believe them. Unfortunately, I think this is working for him. I'd say that he engages with mythos when he communicates with his base.
It seems to me that one of the indisputable truths about human beings is that there are no absolute personal attributes. Some of us will apprehend the world almost exclusively mythically, some only via logos; most of us live somewhere in between. Once, when my daughter Gwen was in high school, I tried to explain a mathematical concept to her. Even just hearing about it made her uncomfortable. Poor thing, many of my forthcoming memoir essays that she’s committed to comment on will be exclusively in the land of logos.
My take on Trump is that he lives exclusively in the land of self and self-aggrandizement, the ONLY thing that really matters to him is the satisfaction of his own ego. He assesses any policy or position or action only for ego satisfaction. He accidently hit on MAGA, and will continue to ride it to the end. It’s really working. Most people live almost exclusively in mythos. Our leaders may work things out using logos, but then their decisions must be clothed in mythos since that’s where almost everyone except a few odd ball thinkers reside.
Dear Frank,
Mythos and Logos are rather like M.C. Escher's 1948 lithograph "Drawing Hands". To engage in rational thought requires the mythos of rationality, to engage in mythos requires the logic that holds stories together, round and round, without end, stories and logic, logic and stories, and all of humanity woven in between.
Also: I dispute your robot's accusations against Kant - he did propose that rationality was essential to securing knowledge, but Kant did not desire to cast out mythos as the robot's wording suggests (this is a better description of Hume than of Kant). Kant well understood that there were important ideals that could not be expressed rationally, and although he believed in 'rational religion' (as did many of the Founding Fathers of the US) he understood that ecclesiastical faith (mythos) was the essential vehicle through which rational religion propagates and establishes its symbolic languages. Kant did not talk in terms of 'mythos', but his writings do not presume everything worthwhile is rational, not by a long chalk.
All in all, the robot's ugly precis is built upon the sort of lazy back projection that dominates contemporary thought, so it is hardly surprising that a Large Language Model cannot see beyond the idle chatter it has aggregated from online texts. Since literally all it can do is make maps of what people are saying and then export sentences implied by those maps, they make a great thesaurus but a lousy encyclopaedia! 😂
With unlimited love,
Chris.
Dear Chris,
Thanks for the comment on Kant and his valuation of mythos. A working life of fitfully directing discrete logic “mechanical” entities along a desired path has only strengthened my innate bias for logos over mythos. We all follow the paths that are comfortable for us, but the further evolution of our group minds demands that those of us that are able to do so, also explore less comfortable paths.
You: All in all, the robot's ugly precis is built upon the sort of lazy back projection that dominates contemporary thought”
Me: Indeed, re the logic of today’s AI, and more so, tomorrow’s, like all the devices we’ve constructed to extend/transcend our natural abilities, we need to be always aware of their limitations. Unfortunately, in the case of AI, it looks like a lot of damage is going to be done before that happens.
Fondly, Frank
Hear hear - I wish more people could see this as clearly as you do, Frank!
Interesting post Frank. Thanks for sending it.
I think that my older daughter, Clara, lives much more in the mythos world than I do. She refused to engage in arguments about things. She just loves us and believes what her heart tells her.
I wonder if Trump engages in both logos and mythos. In Constitution of Knowledge, he tells a reported that he purposefully ridicules them, so that when they say bad things about him, people won't believe them. Unfortunately, I think this is working for him. I'd say that he engages with mythos when he communicates with his base.
Hi Celia! Many thanks for commenting.
It seems to me that one of the indisputable truths about human beings is that there are no absolute personal attributes. Some of us will apprehend the world almost exclusively mythically, some only via logos; most of us live somewhere in between. Once, when my daughter Gwen was in high school, I tried to explain a mathematical concept to her. Even just hearing about it made her uncomfortable. Poor thing, many of my forthcoming memoir essays that she’s committed to comment on will be exclusively in the land of logos.
My take on Trump is that he lives exclusively in the land of self and self-aggrandizement, the ONLY thing that really matters to him is the satisfaction of his own ego. He assesses any policy or position or action only for ego satisfaction. He accidently hit on MAGA, and will continue to ride it to the end. It’s really working. Most people live almost exclusively in mythos. Our leaders may work things out using logos, but then their decisions must be clothed in mythos since that’s where almost everyone except a few odd ball thinkers reside.
Fond regards, Frank